The Paypal Dispute and Claim Gotcha – Escalating Your Claim Gets It Dismissed

Here’s something that we just learned the hard way – from direct personal experience.

If you file a dispute with Paypal – and then escalate it to a claim, as Paypal encourages you to do – there is only one situation in which Paypal won’t then immediately dismiss your claim, making it a win for a non-compliant, non-responsive, or just plain sleazy seller.

When you file a dispute with Paypal, you can file it for one of several pre-designated reasons, which include that you ordered merchandise and it was never received, or that it was received damaged, or that it was received but was not as advertised. In each of these cases, you are asking for a refund of some or all of the money that you paid to the seller via Paypal, or for some other resolution with the seller.

 

In our case, we had received merchandise that was so substantially not as advertised as to render it unusable. In fact, we didn’t even open the packaging. Instead we closed the box right back up, and called the vendor (a business). We called several times, and every time got voicemail (and left messages). There was never actually anybody there to answer the phone (the message on their voicemail always said to call back during normal business hours, even though our calls were always placed during normal business hours).

We also sent several emails to their email address.

After getting no response from them, we opened a dispute with Paypal. We selected the “we received the merchandise but it was not as advertised” category because, well, that’s what the problem was.

The way this is supposed to work then is that Paypal sends a copy of your dispute to the other party, and they have a certain number of days in which to respond.

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In this case, they never responded, and Paypal sent us this message:

“Your dispute over the payment you sent to [ ] will automatically
close on Jan 13, 2009.

Because your seller has not yet responded, you should consider escalating
to a claim soon to ensure that your case remains eligible for PayPal
review. By escalating to a claim, you are asking PayPal to review the case
and decide the outcome.

We will assume that the dispute is resolved and will automatically close it
unless you log in to the Resolution Center and escalate it before Jan 13,
2009. A closed dispute cannot be reopened or escalated to a PayPal claim.”

So, we dutifully escalated the dispute to claim.

Within an hour of escalating our dispute to “claim” status – at Paypal’s behest, mind you – we received this response:

“You have chosen to escalate your dispute to a PayPal claim. By ending
communication with the seller, you are asking PayPal to investigate the
case and decide the outcome. As part of our investigation, PayPal reviewed
any communication you may have had in the Resolution Center.

Our investigation into your claim is complete. As stated in our User
Agreement, the claims process only applies to the shipment of goods. It
does not apply to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods
received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this transaction or issue a
refund. ”

So what does this mean? It means that if you pay somebody with Paypal, they can ship you anything – they could even ship you a sack full of manure – and so long as you receive something from them, you have no recourse to get your money back.

 

Take heed.

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45 Replies to “The Paypal Dispute and Claim Gotcha – Escalating Your Claim Gets It Dismissed”

  1. seller never sent a measely $12.15 item. the seller had an upside down username similar to characters from a foreign country… yet origin of the items showed Illinois. I ordered this item before Halloween never got it.. when I went back to check and inquire of tracking I took note of the unusual ‘name’ on the ebay seller account but received a jpeg picture as proof of delivery. Seller also provided me with a bogus tracking number.. :no information found. I grew concerned but since it was a ‘foreign’ name i figured if it’s coming from further away I might have to wait 30 days. I was still not able to track any information. Contacted Ebay and told it was over 30 days so their case was closed. I then contacted paypal and filed a dispute. I spoke with someone because I have ordered quite a bit and never had any major issues. especially over an item that was only $12 .. paypal ruled in my favor because I suggested they follow the tracking link as I tried and they’d see the same information. The point is I never received the item. going back and forth with this moron con artist, he provides what appears to be an amazon tracking number. I contacted Amazon and told it’s invalid. Just now received an email that this seller is appealing the decision that was ruled in my favor. For Pete’s sake, I didnt get the item I paid for and was refunded the $12 from paypal justifiably so.

    This person is becoming a thorn in my side. I’m now on hold with paypal for a 20 min wait to talk about why this person is able to appeal anything. he’s flat out dishonest.

  2. I agree I have been scammed a few times as a buyer purchasing postage through paypal too tracked service and then the item being refunded as there is not a tacked service and the postage printed on paypal does not store the tracking number once you have paid for it. Please does anyone know who to complain to about these criminals? Its disgusting I am down nearly 1000 for the transaction I believed I was covered as a seller

  3. Hi Everyone

    I am just writing this e-mail in the hope that it may help someone else in the future. I purchased an advanced online gaming account for a game called Black Desert Online from EpicNpc which is a hosting website for gamers wanting to sell and buy their game accounts. Anyhow I was looking through the seller advertisements and found a game account I was interested in. I contacted the seller and we negotiated a price for the game account which would also include the games dedicated e-mail address for $260 USD. We made all our communications through skype and I organised with him to make payment and he was to send all game and e-mail account retails through skype once he received payment. I made payment to the seller through PayPal believing this to be a simple transaction with confidence believing that PayPal provided protection for buyer and seller (which was the main reason I joined PayPal).
    Anyhow to cut a long story short. I made payment and as soon as the seller received payment he sent me a false gaming account details (no e-mail account) and logged off skype and deleted me from the Skype contact list. After testing the game login and finding it to be false, I immediately contacted both PayPal and EpicNPC to notify them I had been scammed thinking I had protection from PayPal.

    Originally I put in the PayPal dispute under I did not receive the item, 1. Because I did not receive a working game account and 2. Because I did not receive the e-mail account that was supposed to come with the game. During the dispute investigation I wanted to provide PayPal with more information they could use for their investigation but I had no way of doing so as there was no e-mail and sections within PayPal for uploading evidence (You have to wait for someone to request this information but no one ever asked me for anything). At the same time I contacted EpicNPC and opened a dispute with the seller. This was a different experience as I was able to provide them with all the evidence in relation to our transactions providing Skype log history screen shots, chat logs and proof of payment between me and the Seller.

    To cut a long story short PayPal found in favour of the Seller because he provided me fake game account details. Didn’t matter that the information was fake just that it was provided to me made it sufficient for him to win. I must say at this time also that PayPal only has restricted (word count numbered) ability for you to provide your evidence. I was not able to upload all the evidence I wanted to provide them to help them with their investigation despite trying to send it by e-mail they would not accept it.

    I then appealed this decision thinking that I can try a different route using the Item not as described thinking I must win this as the game account was not working and part of the transaction was to include the games dedicated e-mail account ownership which I did not receive and was easily proved in the Skype chat logs. So I opened up an appeal with PayPal for this case.
    Mean while everything was being investigated on the EpicNPC website. After reviewing all the information we provided the website found that the Seller was fraudulent and Banned him from their website.

    I tried to contact PayPal via e-mail to give them the EpicNPC links of the investigation findings via e-mail thinking this has to help with the PayPal investigation. Only to be ignored and around 3 hours later received an e-mail from PayPal saying that the case has been investigated and found in favour of the Seller. Full investigation from EpicNPC that I provided links to PayPal can be found here https://www.epicnpc.com/threads/985863-57

    You decide for yourself if PayPal is safe to use and protects the buyer and seller as claimed? I no longer believe that PayPal is safe for online transactions and they do not protect the honest buyer or seller. From my experience anyway is that it only protects those wanting to steal from others and practice fraud. Wish everyone the best.

  4. We are a non-profit so it is essential that we maintain a good relationship with customers and do our best to keep everyone happy. Recently we sent a brand new item to a customer who lives on a military installation. According to the USPS the item arrived at the destination. The customer said he didn’t receive it. The customer filed a claim with ebay. ebay sided with him and refused to allow us to dispute the claim. So the ebay buyer protection actually means “don’t worry we will just take the money from the seller” We went to Pay Pal to request their help, they proceeded to steal over $100 from us to reimburse the buyer for an item that we did ship and could prove had arrived at the destination. So we are out the value of a brand new item, approx $80 plus the purchase and shipping price. Both ebay and pay pal have become very anti seller and I don’t trust either of them. More importantly is the number of uniform items we could have purchased, with those funds, for our Honor Guard team. This is just wrong!!

  5. Paypal, an easy way to make money

    Paypal taught me recently, how to make money quickly and safely without leaving home.
    Just need a little time and some imagination. No earnings limit.

    Think of a product that has high demand for sale, phone, laptop, etc. and a means of disclosure, Ebay, for example.
    But in this case the payment has to be made out of Ebay. Through PayPal.

    Accept any value proposition (profit is almost 100% removal is only a percentage to PayPal)
    Provide your email address from your PayPal account to the buyer to transfer money.
    No need to do anything else. Do not respond to any buyer message.

    After some time the buyer will open a dispute on PayPal to have not received the item,
    there you will shortly receive a buyer’s message through PayPal to claim a refund of money.

    So you just have to find a good excuse, and respond that you will ship the item the next day if the buyer end the dispute on PayPal. If he does, already won.
    The money is in your account with the PayPal guarantee that you will not have any problem because the case is closed and can not be reopened,
    and your data is protected.

    I can assure that works 100% because I’ve been a victim of this system.

  6. Not necessarily. I have received faulty items & the seller wasn’t willing to refund or replace it, so I escalated it to a paypal claim & paypal gave me my money back.

  7. April 20th I decided to purchase an I-Pod through E-bay. I received the I-POD about 5 days later, as I paid for it immediately. So I got it around the 24th.

    Unfortunately two days later I had to return it. I made positive contact with the seller and he did everything he could to help me learn how to use this gadget, but it was a no-go, sadly. :( I do not recommend Apple products- they are way to hard for the average person to try to learn how to use them. Not to mention the trickery that Apple uses with their I-Tunes website- ridiculous!!!

    I’m still waiting for my money to be refunded even though i did everything I was suppose to do. I mailed it back promptly and supplied the tracking number directly to Pay Pal the same day!

    It is May 11th, though the seller received his item, pay pal tells me it will be up to 5 or 6 more days until I receive my 301.00 back in my account. I just got off the phone with them. I don’t think I should have to wait 5 or 6 more days for my cash.

    Anyone have any helpful tips??

    So wrong!

  8. April 20th I decided to purchase an I-Pod through E-bay. I received the I-POD about 5 days later, as I paid for it immediately. So I got it around the 24th.

    Unfortunately two days later I had to return it. I made positive contact with the seller and he did everything he could to help me learn how to use this gadget, but it was a no-go, sadly. :( I do not recommend Apple products- they are way to hard for the average person to try to learn how to use them. Not to mention the trickery that Apple uses with their I-Tunes website- ridiculous!!!

    I’m still waiting for my money to be refunded even though i did everything I was suppose to do. I mailed it back promptly and supplied the tracking number directly to Pay Pal the same day!

    It is May 11th, though the seller received his item, pay pal tells me it will be up to 5 or 6 more days until I receive my 301.00 back in my account. I just got off the phone with them. I don’t think I should have to wait 5 or 6 more days for my cash.

    Anyone have any helpful tips??

    So wrong!

  9. PayPal is good as long as you don’t get into a minor dispute. Here is one;

    Buyer bought something….he claimed it was different than advertised, although it was a singular antique photographed 8 times…with the weight and size clearly marked. He was an inexperienced guy who thought he was gonna sell and make money.

    He filed a claim. I feel sorry for the guy since he was born dumb….but not dumb enough to make a claim. Now I have another sale and try to buy $2 of postage….I see the charge is $305 ……they want to include his $ in the transaction even though i do not have back the product yet.

    This deal will probably be ok…the guy doesn’t seem like a rip-off artist….just dumb…..

    But PayPal is a practiced, illegal, fraudulent company.

  10. Most of these comments are truly ignorant of paypal and their practices.

    You have a bad experience because you don’t read the fine print or how to handle processes within paypal and you claim they’re being used for fraud.

    I’ve sold online for years and used paypal and they almost always get it right like most processing companies.

    You also have the ability to dispute their decision which in my experience has always worked.

    You need to stop complaining and get educated. All the answers on fixing your problem are right on their website.

  11. These stories scared me so badly that I called the bank which issued the credit card I use at Paypal. I was assured that I am protected from fraud as described by these unfortunate Paypal subsribers.

  12. I am glad I read this thread before loosing lots of money. I was looking for a vendor to purchase commercial dental equipment. A search provided a supplier with a deal that seemed to good to be true. Current name brand state of the art new equipment at about half the cost of other suppliers. Address checks out to a company in CA, no Dunn and Bradstreet report, but no complaints.. So very professional web site and “add to cart”, “guy it now”. Goes directly to paypal with no detailed description, just the item name and $3,500.00 charge. Seems safe enough, I have 0rdered tens of thousands of dollars through E-bay with PayPal as payment. But nowafter reading this thread I have an idea of the scam.. They send me anything even a brick, but probably some old useless dental equipment from 1995 with the name on it matching my order. We sign for it when it’s delivered and I am officially scammed out of $3,500.00. Thanks PayPal. They have delivery confirmation and that seems to be good enough.. To good to be true always is.

  13. paypal to me is just a middle man to commit fraud through teenagers that are addicted to online games like runscape and steal credit card info to order gold then sell it on craigslist for cash.scammers

  14. Is there any recourse for an honest buyer? I purchased grommets from a NJ company – they were out of stock in one color but sent me 20 grommets of another color and said they would mail the out of stock in one month. After about 2 weeks I purchased from another company and promptly returned the (still packaged) 20 grommets with delivery confirmation. The company signed for them but wouldn’t respond to my request for a refund. I disputed through paypal and escalated to a claim. I have all supporting documents that I returned part of the order but they still ruled in sellers favor. Now the company has my $139.00 plus they get to sell the grommets to someone else.

  15. I’m seeing this from the sellers side of the fence at the moment. The buyer received a full and accurate description of the second hand goods including the flaws and agreed to a price plus postage. I sent them with express tracked mail. The day after she received them she opened a dispute claiming the goods were damaged and not as described – but the “damage” etc is exactly what I had told her about. Thinking I’d be fair I offered a full refund, including the shipping to her, if she shipped them back by return mail. These are second hand goods, I don’t need to offer that, but she wants her money back and wants to keep the goods! She escalated it to a claim, paypal have emailed her to tell her I have agreed to a full refund if she returns them, she won’t respond. Now I’m worried she’s going to try a credit card chargeback instead. Looks like I lose my goods and my money – lesson learned. I’ll be closing my paypal account once this is over – if I can????!!!

  16. I filed an non arrival claim with Paypal after a ‘phone from Phone Board Hong Kong did not arrive. The tracking number I had did not show delivery. Phone Board then sent Paypal another tracking number that showed delivery and so my claim was dismissed. Paypal confirmed that it had been delivered to my address. I contacted the carrier who confirmed that the item had been delivered hundreds of miles away. I will challenge them in the UK SmallClaim division of the COunty COurt if they don’t sort it.

  17. Me too.

    I brought A Mobil Phone from a ebay Seller in South Australia, When it arrived all excited but it had a problem so contacted the seller he said try factory set and one other thing but no good, still had the problem. I tried emailing him but just would not reply to my emails left messages on the land line still
    no reply and finely he responded to an email my wife
    sent, saying did not get your emails must have gone into spam? yer what ever we thought,I then contacted PayPal was told to lodge a claim & we did,did all the right things spoke to then nicely sent them the Australia registered post plus to the return address and then PayPal said that the Registered post slip and Number was not good enough and how did they no the seller got the phone, I said to them that sending it that way he hast to sign for it at his end if not it comes back to me.

    I think the only way to by any thing on line is ONLY pay for it with your own credit card, never ever use paypal you go along with the idea that doing it that way is a totally safe way to pay for the things you by on line. IT IS NOT JUST DO NOT BE TRAPED INTO THINKING YOU ARE COVERD WITH PAYPAL they will drop you in the poo quicker than you can think your name out load.I have no phone & $294 out of pocket

    You never stop luring

    B.

  18. Paypal favors the seller? LOL That’s a laugh. I’ve stopped selling on paypal because I’ve had problems with buyers. Besides me selling a few concert tickets that the people just claimed didn’t work(nothing I could do about it since they already went and paypal made me refund the money). Also, I sold a laptop and put a generic picture but it was very well described and the buyer emails me saying, (I don’t like the way it looks, it looked better online. Refund my money and pay for shipping back.) I told him I can refund but I wouldn’t pay for shipping since it was his mistake, next thing you know, he’s like, “the latch on the laptop was broken by the way”, really?? How can the latch be broken when it is in the interior the laptop when the laptop is closed. And yet, paypal made me refund him and he sent me the broken piece back with my laptop(thinking i would try to superglue?), I lost $20 on shipping and it went for $40 less because of the damage..

    I would love for paypal to actually take the buyers side once..

  19. Let it be known that paypal has lifted the holding period a claimant has to wait to get their money back as a buyer. They can now file and receive a refund without even the seller being given a chance to investigate if its a lost package in the mail, etc. What kind of ***** is this, PayPal?

  20. I am always amazed by posts that point angry consumers to the fine print in the boilerplate that favors the seller without any mention of the prime focus of Paypal’s advertising which is that it gives the buyer confidence that his interests will be supported by Paypal should push come to shove.

  21. Everyone crying about Paypal needs to read the User agreement before clicking ‘ok’. Paypal will side with the seller most of the time, advice to anyone ina dispute situation. PROVIDE PAYPAL WITH AMPLE EVIDENCE. Before you buy you need to ensure you have all the proof you need before things go sour. PayPal is not a bank but a middle man.

  22. I too received the “consider escalating to a claim” email from PayPal. The seller never responded to my initial dispute message, so I decided to send a second message that clearly supports the “Item not as described” reason I chose when initiating the claim.

    Hopefully, my second email will document my position well enough that PayPal will decide in my favor when I escalate this in a few days. If not, my PayPal account is hooked up to my credit card, so I will dispute the payment with my credit card company. My second message will show that I was reasonable and tried to communicate with the seller.

    According to a website “Buyers cannot appeal PayPal decisions, but they retain their ability to get protection elsewhere. For instance, if a buyer funds their PayPal payment with a credit card, they have the right to file a chargeback through their card issuer to recoup the funds.” Source: http://baseswiki.org/en/PayPal,_Resolution_Center

  23. Update on AlohaMark — 7/12/2011 post:

    I GOT MY MONEY BACK! Thank you Mastercard. As Jackie said, Paypal asked I pay (about 75$) to return a 97$ watch. I was promised the shipping would be reimbursed. How, I don’t know because they don’t ask for the price of shipping. I refused since I cannot trust the seller who could pretend the item was missing or broken. So I dealt with my credit card company AND THEY TOLD ME THIS IS ILLEGAL. The seller should pay for the shipping back to himself, not you. IN A NUTSHELL, DO NOT WASTE LOTS OF YOUR TIME LIKE I DID WITH PAYPAL, THIS WILL GO NOWHERE. BUY WITH A CREDIT CARD.

  24. I always pay with a credit card. That way if I have to file a Paypal dispute and Paypal sides with the seller, I can try getting my money back by doing a chargeback.

  25. If you lost your card and someone uses your card even if you file a dispute, PayPal wants you to prove that you did not make that purchase. You are still responsible for the fraud use of your PayPal debit card. I refused to pay for something I did not purchase. I filed a police report talked to the merchant and still I am responsible for that transaction. I cant close my PayPal account and they wont work with me until I pay up.

  26. I concluded that Paypal is actually the key to produce scams.They will guarantee that your transactions are safe and secure ,but actually they keep in safe all thieves and together make all cheating and thefts
    this complaint will be placed on all sites to let everyone know that bandits and thieves are taking care of money and shopping

  27. I have been buying off Ebay for years, recently I bought something from the UK. The seller wasn’t taking any questions so I bought the item and stated on the invoice that I was expecting both items (item and accessory kit), they responded, yes that should be the case. The seller listed a part number and product code which also corresponded to the item and accessory kit. However only the kit came. The seller would only refund me if I returned it (so I would have had to pay two lots of postage to Australia and back to the UK) and eventually I raised a paypal claim. The seller admitted to the listing being incorrect – result was I had to pay for REGISTERED/TRACKABLE postage to the UK. I lost out bigtime. Ebay can’t do anything as they are totally dependant on Paypal policies as Paypal are THEIR chosen method of payment. So whatever you buy, if the seller makes a mistake or deliberatly misleads you, even though you are awarded the case, YOU WILL PAY FOR RETURN REGISTERED POST regardless of the circumstances so it will ALWAYS cost you money. Paypal do not advise you this when you start a dispute/claim they only tell you you have to pay for the trackable return postage after you have lodged your claim. And THEN you find out later you only get your money when the seller gets the item back in the same condition they sent it. So it if gets damaged in transit I guess you get nothing at all – no buyer protection on ebay or from paypal really. So companies selling on ebay do not have to give ANY customer service, as ebay do not require it.

  28. I may have found a solution. I have the same problem: dispute going nowhere and seller covered by bad Paypal & DHGate policies. I bought a 45mm watch and the seller sent me 50mm even though I told him many times I did not want a 50mm. For a full refund DHGate.com requires I ship the item back. The shipping costs more than the watch. I expect Paypal to screw me as well. I called my credit card company, the argument was about to go nowhere when I used the magic words: “If we don’t do anything about it, this equates to encouraging fraud.” The *fraud* word got their attention. Use it.

  29. True, true and true! Paypal is such a joke. It is simply a large money mover. ALWAYS USE YOUR CREDIT CARD! Never use your bank account!

  30. I purchased an item on April 20th, paid thru Paypal and the seller stated it would ship in 10 days. The seller changed the delivery date to 7/14/10 on ebay and therefore Ebay and Paypal refused to open a claim. Now that 45 days has passed and I still have not received the item, both companies are refusing to open an claim because it is too late (even though they refused to let me open one prior to 6/14). I have been totally ripped off for more than $150.00 and both Ebay and Paypal are allowing it to happen.

  31. The thing that really baffles me about these disputes is that paypal automatically favors the seller by allowing them to ignore disputes.

    A seller sent me nothing for my $100 and I opened a dispute, yet she ignored it so basically Paypal enables the seller. Why did I waste my time writing a complaint to the seller if she can walk away with the money with no penalty.

    On top of which, she is bragging all over the internet about how she scammed people and yet she is permitted to continue.

    I guess I have to write that purchase off to a bad decision!

  32. Does anyone know of an escalation path outside and beyond Paypal? Small Claims Court, FSA etc

  33. Bradley, the same thing just happened to me. And there was an error with the claim form that I emailed paypal about. I hope the claim comes out in my favor, as I NEVER received the item and my seller is definitely MIA.

  34. got this message from paypal as soon as i filed a dispute:

    ESCALATE TO A CLAIM: Your seller is currently unable to respond to this dispute.

    so i did… then it happened with multiple other sellers. a few items arrived great around christmas, everything else m.i.a. and now paypal says the sellers aren’t available!?

  35. Paypal will always do this with not as described claims. Unless you bought on EBay. Then they always side with the buyer. Paypal is extremely sleazy and unreputable. Why do people keep using them. What we find is people love them and adore them – until THEY have a problem. Then the same people scream bloody murder. Paypal eventually screws everyone over. ITs a matter of time. However, people being what they are, will love them and post ignorant supportive posts about them until they tehmselves get burned. Thats how scammers do it in America. America loves this soort of thing. Good sheep.

  36. Paypal gotcha !!
    Similar thing happened to me after sending a dispute to chinese seller with no reply and after escalating the claim this is the reply i got. I will henceforth never use pay pal for payments for goods.

    Hello,
    You have chosen to escalate your dispute to a PayPal claim. By ending communication with the seller, you are asking PayPal to investigate the case and decide the outcome. As part of our investigation, PayPal reviewed any communication you may have had in the Resolution Center.

    Our investigation into your claim is complete. As stated in our User
    Agreement, the claims process only applies to the shipment of goods. It does not apply to complaints about the attributes or quality of goods received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this transaction or issue a refund.

  37. I’m a power seller on ebay and I have a person filing a claim against a item i sold with pictures showing the phone worked fine, even tested again before shipment, put in water proof plastic wrap, inside padded envelope, buyer never paid for ins through the us mail service i used, and never contacted me about item just did a dispute claim. Now paypal has taken the amount they disputed directly out of my checking account. Paypal needs to quit being shady and I’ll be disputing charges with my bank. I wish there was a alternative to paypal.

  38. I have not had the same experience with paypal as most of you had. I purchased a phone that was said to be “LIKE NEW NO SCRATCHES” and the phone came all beat up and with a bad ESN which before bidding I asked the seller if she can guarantee it had a good ESN and she responded yes. So I followed paypals rules, the seller still said NO refund, and I escalated it to a claim immediately after she said no. Then I called about 2 days later (paypal) and got the claim expedited.
    No problems here. Just go into it with a nice attitude no matter what country the people are from on the other line, they’re only working for a paycheck, so just be nice, they dont own the company.
    Attitude can take you far or hold you back depending on what kind of attitude you portray.

  39. I thought I’d add to your post – apparently, if you try to do a chargeback as well, Paypal will then freeze your account.

    If you try to CLOSE your paypal account, you can only close it if your bank or credit card information is STILL in your profile. If you try to delete it and then close your account, they will freeze the account instead of letting you close it.

    The number of ‘gotchas’ and sneaky underhanded little tricks they have is amazing, really.

    The world needs to find other routes for selling, or go back to more stable ways. People like paypal are just absolute cheaters.

  40. I paid the item I won on ebay immdeiately but seller never shipped the item, and the seller gave incorrect contact info to contact and I have escalated the paypall dispute based on item never received, the seller is non responding dont know what happens ? will i get back my money? I dont know how far the paypall wiill be doin justice to me.

  41. I have found the immediate call to Paypal and a request to talk to a supervisor or mananger is the most help in situations as above… or ask for someone in the dispute department and talk to their supervisor… be insistant and keep calling… You have to actually talk to someone who has authority to do something… Thats the best advice that I can offer… also if you can, make sure to return the merchandise… if you keep it, then you are liable for it. Then you can say that technically you never received it…lol.

  42. A call to whom? Paypal’s highhandedness is matched only by their ability to hide out when an attempt is made to reach them by telephone.

    Customer service communication with them reveals their uncanny ability to identify outsourcing companies with no understanding of the actual meaning of English sentences.

    For those instances when we have to use them, we find their rules confusing and arbitrary. They are the paradigm of what customer service in a bad economy SHOULD NOT be.

  43. I’ve escalated claims on paypal previously (using the ‘not as described’ criteria) and had a successful outcome.

    Could this just have been a bug in the PP Disp. Reso. system? A call may be in order, or if it was partially funded w/ a CC a charge dispute since PP is the causing the problem this time.

  44. I’ve been there too.

    Unfortunately, Paypal has no way of knowing who is correct. Before this policy, I know some sellers who have had buyers reverse the payment claiming the item was incorrect or damaged. There are scammers playing both sides of transactions and Paypal has no way to know who is lying. The proof of delivery (automatic if you print the shipping label through paypal) is the only verifiable evidence that Paypal has. Everything else is the unverifiable word of the buyer and the seller.

    The sellers who have been ripped off by buyers were just as angry as you.

    For the buyer, it is no different than buying a sealed box at a flea market or from a magazine ad – you have to understand the risk and decide if you can afford to lose – if not, pay more at a vendor where you can inspect the item first. I learned the hard way too.

  45. It’s a shame if anyone finds this surprising. For its entire existence, Paypal has made a consistent and mostly successful effort to provide services that replace those commonly provided by regulated financial services companies in ways that allow them to avoid being subject to those regulations. In the US and many other countries, we have come to expect protection from blatant mail-order scams from credit card issuers because they are required to provide such protection. When one chooses to work with a company like Paypal whose business model and competitive advantage are dependent on saving money by operating outside of the scope of consumer protection law, one should not expect that company to do costly things that they are not required by law to do. Eating the cost of a scam or even seriously investigating it to get a refund is not something they are required to do, and it is unremarkable that they choose not to spend that money.

    Of course, as a Paypal customer you really already knew this because you’ve read all the service terms they’ve ever offered you (and as a lawyer you understood them all) and so you agreed that you’d take the risk of being scammed by anyone you do business with through Paypal. Welcome to Libertarian Paradise! :)

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